How can real estate technology, or property technology, benefit Opportunity Zone marketplace participants?
Steve Nson is founder of AnySizeDeals, a matchmaking platform for real estate investors that also organizes live events. Their upcoming AnySizeDeals Week event will focus on how real estate interacts with AI and robotics, innovation, Opportunity Zones, and blockchain.
Click the play button below to listen to my conversation with Steve.
- A definition of real estate technology, or property technology (PropTech): real estate innovation as it relates to technology and other disruptive trends.
- How companies like WeWork and trends like co-living are disrupting the real estate industry.
- Real estate professions and sectors that PropTech is already affecting, or likely to affect in the near future.
- The rapid growth of the PropTech industry from a few million dollars to $20 billion, in just six years.
- How PropTech can interact with Opportunity Zones, for both real estate and business investments.
- How PropTech can create a compliance audit trail for Qualified Opportunity Funds and Qualified Opportunity Zone Businesses.
- PropTech trends to keep an eye on in 2020 and beyond.
- Steve’s upcoming AnySizeDeals Week live event that will focus on AI and robotics, innovation, Opportunity Zones, and blockchain.
Featured on This Episode
Industry Spotlight: AnySizeDeals Week 2020
Founded in 2015 as a platform to connect real estate marketplace participants, AnySizeDeals emphasizes face-to-face meetings through their annual conference events. Their AnySizeDeals Week 2020 event coming to Las Vegas in September will focus on real estate technology, with one day dedicated specifically to Opportunity Zones.
About the Opportunity Zones Podcast
Hosted by OpportunityDb.com founder Jimmy Atkinson, the Opportunity Zones Podcast features guest interviews from fund managers, advisors, policymakers, tax professionals, and other foremost experts in opportunity zones.
Jimmy: Welcome to the Opportunity Zones Podcast. I’m your host Jimmy Atkinson. Joining me today to discuss Real Estate Technology and Opportunity Zones is Steve Nson. Steve is founder of AnySizeDeals, a conference organizer with a focus on Real Estate Innovation. The AnySizeDeals Festival of Real Estate Innovation is coming to Las Vegas in September. Steve, thanks for joining me today and welcome to the podcast.
Steve: Thanks for having me, Jimmy. I’m so excited to be on your show.
Jimmy: Excited to have you here too, Steve. We met at your Opportunity Zones Summit in Brooklyn last year in-person. That was the first time meeting and it’s great to connect with you again here as you’re preparing for your second Opportunity Zone conference coming to the Venetian in Las Vegas this September, and we’ll talk about that a little later on in the show, but first let’s dive into real estate technology or CRE tech or PropTech. It’s one of those exciting terms that carries a connotation of industry disruption.
But at the same time, it’s a very broad term and somewhat vague. It can encompass a lot of real estate technology topics, smart home technology, property management technology, listing services technology. And the term also overlaps with financial technology including real estate project crowdfunding, distributed ledger technology, loan management technology. Just name a few. And so today’s episode is going to focus on the intersection of PropTech and Opportunity Zones. But to start us off, Steve, can you give our listeners an overview of what PropTech is exactly and what that term means to you?
Steve: Yeah, that’s an excellent question point you made. So for me, PropTech, means real innovation as it relates to, for the most part, technology. But to a certain degree, it can be anything disruptive. So it can be anywhere from software that created to automate certain aspects of your life or certain aspects of managing your property or underwriting a property. Or it could be something where there’s not necessarily a lot of technology involved, but it’s changing how the real estate industry, the real estate business is conducted.
The perfect example, it’d be a WeWork, right? Although WeWork is currently going through some difficulties right now. Overall they have been a very disruptive company, right? So WeWork is not affiliate technology-based company, but they changed the way, owners lease out their space and they changed the way tenants use space, right? And it had a huge impact because it dramatically transformed how building owners and operators started viewing how to manage their space and then a lot of companies that came.
Another disruptive approach that’s not necessarily tech-driven but that is disruptive within the real estate ecosystem is something called Co-Living, right? Which is one of the multifamily sector, which is changing how people rent out apartments, what their expectations are, and also changing how developers build apartments. So instead of giving you a larger apartment for one person, it’s more sort of a dorm concept targeting millennials. So the building has a lot more amenities and services and you have less physical space where you live in because people don’t really use your space. So there’s no software there, but it’s still disruptive. And then you have your traditional software place, where there’s a lot of technology involved or a bunch of companies from the VPS of the world the Reonomy. But for me, when someone says PropTech, my first thought is it’s something that’s changing how real estate is being used and run.
Jimmy: Yeah. It’s very exciting. Potentially disruptive technologies that could turn the real estate industry upside down in many ways, Steve, which real estate professions or sectors is PropTech already starting to affect or likely going to affect in the near future?
Steve: Well, as you mentioned in your intro. So it affects multiple areas. So there’s some firms that are really focused on the asset management component. So how you operate and run your portfolio, tracking your lease, tracking your data, right? Real estate is the industry that has a ton of data, right? From the rent to the leases to the transactions, etc. But obviously, getting this information in an intelligent manner has always been a challenge. So that a lot of companies that focus on that aspect of it. The other companies that are tackling aspects of construction, there’s not a single area that hasn’t been impacted, right?
So last year, for example, with $20 billion of venture capital was poured into the sector. If you go back to, let’s say 2013, I don’t even think it was $20 million, right? So within like six years or so you’ve gone from a few million dollars of investment capital in this space to billions, right? And the thing you have to realize is that a lot of the money that’s gone into the space it’s not just venture capitalists. This money also comes from real estate development firms, right? So from the Tishman Speyer to the Rudin to Hines.
So bunch of companies who are traditional real estate businesses themselves have started putting capital within the tech sector because they’re aware that technology and all of these disruptive tools are changing the dictation from their tenants but also are opportunities for them to either run the businesses more efficiently or generate more capital. So the whole industry as a whole is really transforming and changing. And if you go to any real estate conference or event any real estate conference, in general, you’d see that there’s a big emphasis on seeing how you can incorporate technology within the system because it’s just something that’s having a huge impact within the space.
Jimmy: Yeah, that’s incredible to hear about the growth of the industry going from essentially zero to $20 billion in funding in a manner of just a very short amount of time. Just a few years. That’s very interesting. I want to shift our attention to Opportunity Zones and examine the relationship between PropTech and OZs. But first, I want to back up a minute here, first, Steve and get background on you and AnySizeDeals, maybe you can tell us a little bit about AnySizeDeals and how you got started with it and how you got to where you are today.
Steve: Yeah, that’s a good question. So my background prior to being an entrepreneur, I always worked in the real estate industry. I went to school at the University of Minnesota for my undergraduate degree, got a degree in real estate then moved to New York. Went to NYU got a master’s degree in real estate. Upon graduating I worked for a bunch of real estate companies. And I mostly worked in asset management and leasing. But I was very interested in entrepreneurship and in technology.
And I started AnySizeDeals as a way to figure out how to connect people who wanted to buy real estate with different skills. So my background was in asset management. And I was like, “Well, if I want to buy real estate, maybe I need a partner who has a background in finance or development and acquisition.” There’s not really a platform for me to do this. LinkedIn does exist and it’s there. But LinkedIn, it’s more general networking or if you’re looking for a job, etc. At least that was my perception of the platform. I wanted something that was worth more direct.
Hence the name AnySizeDeals where it doesn’t matter what your deal size is, what matters is can you find someone on that platform that can help you do a transaction or work with you? And I didn’t think about it. As a one to many, I thought of it as a one-to-one situation. Think of it like a dating site. So if you’re in a dating site, you’re specific in terms of, you’re looking for someone with specific characteristics, right? So I apply that same concept too. Let’s say in New York, I’m looking to buy a 10-unit building in Brooklyn, cost X amount of dollars. I’m looking for a partner for this. That was my initial concept.
So I launched this site, this was about 2015. I started to get some traction. One of the ways that I was able to get people on board was I started going to like local meetups to pitch the idea. And then I launched my own meetup. Then one thing led to another started doing events. I was doing events here and there, but mostly as a way to promote the online platforms to connect people. And then it took me a few years to realize that what I was trying to achieve via the online platform, I was more effective at achieving it at my own events and conferences.
So then I decided that instead of focusing AnySizeDeals to being an online platform that connects people, I would refocus this on it being a platform to connect people regardless to where it is, but mostly at live events, because I realized that our industry there’s still is a big emphasis on face to face meeting on deal-making where I meet you, talk to you, still have the handshake, and especially because the people wanted to attract on the platform, where senior executives who don’t necessarily use technology to do transactions. They might use technology to meet someone or to get the initial thing. But for them is to set up a meeting. And I realized that by doing the conferences, it was more effective that way.
So then I decided to kind of and it started where they use the word pivot. I don’t really like to use the word pivot. I like to say I evolve, right? And I started to evolve the business and focus more on doing conferences, and that’s why I started doing conferences a couple years ago. And then with the conferences at each event, I focused on a specific topic. That way I’m able to match people that are interested in that topic. That’s kind of how we would met at the ASDSummit, which was an Opportunity Zones, I have other ones that focused on other areas of Real Estate Innovation. So that’s somewhat of the background.
Jimmy: Yeah, that’s great. No, that’s great background. So AnySizeDeals essentially it’s a matchmaking platform for real estate investors that started online. And recently, you’ve taken it to live events, which I think is great. I always love attending the live events and having that face to face networking is very important, especially in this industry. You’re absolutely right. So, Steve, let’s now shift our attention to Opportunity Zones could tell us what is the relationship between PropTech and OZs, how do they intersect?
Steve: As of today, you don’t have as much intersection that they should be, but I think there’s huge potential. For one thing, like I mentioned earlier about investments, right? A lot of the PropTech companies have raised funds from traditional real estate companies. A lot of the traditional real estate companies are very familiar with tax incentives based on the location where you are. So I think from one aspect, it makes natural sense that these investors start requiring that some of their startups that they’re investing is located in Opportunity Zones, right?
And I think from a prospect standpoint, one, you’re creating or solving problems that are real estate related, right? And if you think about it, a lot of people, almost everybody lives, right? We all live in buildings, which it’s real estate still, by definition, you’re solving two problems by locating Opportunity Zone. And one of the reasons the law came about is because the government wanted to encouraged investments in areas that were underserved. So if you have a PropTech firm, you’re locating Opportunity Zones, when you obviously generate income for yourself, but you’re also helping a local area to grow and create businesses there.
The other thing is, you probably already are generating a significant amount of income from Opportunity Zones. So you’re just not taking advantage of the benefits of being there, right? Because we have this 50% gross income tax, right? Either 50% of the hours that your employees [inaudible 00:12:26] are there or the income you generate are there. So I think a lot of PropTech firms should think about it that way and kind of see the benefit. There is pretty much no downside from startup investing or a startup, launching with an Opportunity Zone.
From the investment side, the other thing is venture capital firms usually when they invest in startups, the very view is that whatever startup investing it is it really grows something that can go public or IPO, it usually takes about 10 years. So venture capitalists have a longer timeframe for when they think their investments was supposed to pan out. And with the Opportunity Zones, your real benefit is this, you have it there for 10 years, right? Then you pay no capital gains tax on any of the profits past the 10 years. So I think from those two aspects already, it’s like a natural opportunity.
Jimmy: Yeah, I agree there, there’s definitely a good amount of overlap between, that VC target of a 10-year hold and the Opportunity Zone incentive because you need to achieve that 10-year hold anyway. And we’ve seen in the first wave of Opportunity Zone investments, a lot of real estate deals get put into place, but I think in this in the second wave, that’s coming, where that is already started. We’re going to see more and more VC based, more startups, more operating businesses, get started in Opportunity Zones, and like you said there’s really no reason why if you have a PropTech startup or really any type of startup, that you shouldn’t start it in an Opportunity Zone. Can you expound a little bit on the benefits of locating in an Opportunity Zone for PropTech firm specifically?
Steve: Yeah, so like I had mentioned, like, for me just thinking about it from the standpoint of having a competitive advantage, right? So most startups are always looking to raise money, right? So one of the benefits it goes directly to investors if they invest in your company, it automatically helps them with reducing their taxes. When you do if the company IPOs or whatever profit you have later down the line by being there or by identifying what percentage of the businesses is an Opportunity Zone is making your business more attractive, right? To investors that focus on opportunity zone and to investors that do not.
The other thing is if you are running an incubator or an accelerator, so these are places that helps foster businesses, right? If you run one of those and you’re looking at an Opportunity Zone, again, you have another incentive to attract those businesses. And from a business standpoint, it helps you defer some of the expenses because you’re attracting certain investments to set up. So, for me, it’s really about the benefit from a financial standpoint of being located there. Plus, like I mentioned, a lot of companies, when they think about one of the reasons to do business is to make a difference within their communities, right?
Speaking of communities, another key benefit that I haven’t mentioned is that there’s a big discussion not just in PropTech but tech, in general, that there’s a lack of diversity in terms of who’s getting capital, right? So if you focus, for example, if you venture funding is focused on Opportunity Zones or investment Opportunities Zones, you will automatically tap into people within that community that might come from a diverse background and the businesses that are going to come up from that specific area might not be the traditional businesses, you see.
So for me, there’s just a lot of dynamic opportunities that can come from really not just the PropTech. PropTech obviously, but the tech sector, in general, really focusing on targeting those areas. Plus, what any 700 designated Opportunity Zone and roughly 35 million Americans live within those Opportunity Zones. A business that has 35 million potential customers is attractive to anybody, right? So even if you’re designing your company, you try to say, “Okay, what problems can I solve for those 35 million Americans? What’s the last thing that I can solve?” That’s already a huge opportunity? And the benefit to that is you’re going to find investors who want to put in the money because there’s a huge tax incentive for them.
Jimmy: Absolutely, yeah. No, that’s a good breakdown of the benefits of locating an Opportunity Zone not just for PropTech firms, not just for tech firms, but for any type of business. So to me, I see PropTech and Opportunity Zones interacting in two distinct ways really. We’ve already talked about the first way one is on that investment side of that capital raising side, a lot of PropTech companies or startups that need capital investment, it’s a hot new sector for VC funding. So as we mentioned before if you’re starting a PropTech firm, why not locate it in an Opportunity Zones?
Steve and I just went through a list of a lot of the benefits that PropTech firms can gain by locating in an Opportunity Zone and the investors with capital gains obviously can take advantage of all the OZ tax benefits. But the other side I feel like is the compliance side on the compliance side. What I mean by that is there are PropTech firms or there may be PropTech firms in development that can help develop technology that specifically helps OZ Funds stay in compliance with the safe harbors associated with the tax incentive. And those safe harbors I’m talking about are the 90% asset test at the fund level, the 70% asset test at the QOZB level, the 50% gross income test.
So I’m thinking of like a blockchain-powered fund administration services company geared specifically for OZ Funds. That’s one example. A Gore-Tex is a good example of a company that’s been innovative in that space. I’m also thinking of maybe a GPS tracking tech company that can help track the movement of a Qualified Opportunity Zone businesses, employees and independent contractors during the workday to help the QOZB and the upstream qualified opportunity fund keep an audit trail that shows that you did satisfy the 50% hours worked test, being able to locate where the equipment and where the employees and contractors are during the course of the day. I think that that’s another example of a PropTech company that specifically focuses on the OZ space. Steve, are there any other PropTech firms or any other areas that are focused on OZ specific technology?
Steve: I mean, examples you mentioned are great. I think a lot of existing PropTech firms can create subsidiaries or pivot or create additional business plans to kind of tackle that administrative aspect you mentioned. For example, there’s a firm called Reonomy, they recently raised about $6 million, and on their platform really is true. You can find any information about almost any property within the U.S, right? The address, the location, etc. it’s really about gathering and collecting data and helping people make intelligent decisions about their investment, a firm like that they can do the exact same thing and have been worth it. They have a targeted tool just for Opportunity Zone.
So if you own a bunch of buildings, manage a bunch of buildings, and you’re trying to see how many are located in Opportunity Zones because it’s an area that you want to explore, that’s something you can do. There are firms that help you analyze, worth the place investment, right? Just in general. So software tools that do that you can take that same software tool and use it for Opportunity Zones. So if you and I want to invest in Opportunity Zones that are 8,700, which how do we pick the best one that meets what we’re looking for? We might be interested in demographics, like what are the income ranges, what other businesses are locating there? Are these neighborhoods on the cusp of really getting to where we need to go etc?
Those are certain tools that a lot of… So very firms tech companies, PropTech firms that provide such services, they are just not thinking of, “Oh, let me dedicate this to Opportunity zones” but it’s a huge market opportunity. They’re just thinking from a broader perspective, there are two firms that come to mind Dylan AI and Cherry, right? Where they’re AI-based platforms that really work with owners and operators to underwrite their transactions, make market analysis in terms of determining their investments. To me, those brands there’s like a natural relationship with Opportunity Zones, because if you’re a real estate investor, owner-developer when you’re picking a location, a lot of it has to do with whether you think you’re going to get the best return within that location. So having a tool that helps you do this makes a ton of sense.
What you mentioned about the safe harbor etc. It does also make a lot of sense that some firms really focus on that aspect because it’s critical. And I would say another thing that can be really helpful within this sector, although a lot of people are interested, some people may necessarily know what the process is to qualify… Some people may be interested in setting up funds really understanding that there are platforms out there that helps streamline the process, right? That would be huge as well, right?
If there’s an online platform meeting go, if let’s say you want to search on funds, you can go and find all the info and streamline and that’s great. If you want to look at funds that invest in businesses, is there a platform for you to go out there and find out all this info? This fund is targeting companies like myself that are located in Cleveland or Alabama or New York or what have you that would make a lot of sense. So those are the other aspects too from a support standpoint, that I think are critical. And again, as more people start paying attention because there’s more capital coming in now that the guidelines are kind of official. I’m really optimistic about this space. I think there’s so much opportunity there. And there’s so much synergy with the PropTech space and the tech sector. And it’s just a matter of time before people really, get into it.
Jimmy: I agree there are a lot of synergies between PropTech and Opportunity Zones. Reonomy was a great example of an analytics-based tool that can help you identify properties and demographic trends within different Opportunities Zones. So that was a great example of a PropTech firm that has OZ component to it. Steve, looking forward to the rest of this year 2020 just got underway here. We’re toward the end of January, beginning of February now, what are some trends in the PropTech industry that you feel we should keep an eye on?
Steve: There are two ways to look at it. So trends in terms of software technology, etc. So artificial intelligence is something that’s significantly growing robotics is one. Robotics, a lot of it is on the construction side of the business. From a safety standpoint, from an efficiency standpoint, you have firms like Amazon that have a lot of facilities that just use robots in China is massive. They have everything from restaurants that just use robots to warehouses etc. So this is something that’s taking up a lot more steam than we’ve seen in the past, obviously blockchain is always a topic. Now, future of work, which is co-working flex space. Although WeWork was supposed to IPO they didn’t, that kind of dampened the mood there, but it’s still such a massive area within the real estate sector.
And taking into account that it’s only about 5% market penetration on the office sector. What do I mean by that? I mean, most of the leases in the office sector are still traditional long term leases. There are very few that are flexible leases. But it’s growing so fast. So it’s something to keep an eye out on, right? So that’s one thing to look at. Now, another thing to look at within the space, it’s just what’s going to happen to the company? Are companies still going to keep raising a lot of money? Absolutely. Now, is the money that’s being raised going to go to all companies at all stages? Probably not. Because they’re a sizable amount of companies and entrepreneurs who’ve been at it for two years.
So what’s going to happen is, more money’s going to come in, but it’s only going to focus on like, the top tier firms where investors face maybe the speaking IPO in a couple of years. And then another thing that’s going to happen is they’re going to be more mergers than acquisitions, right? So lets say you and I have a similar business when the same space has been going at it for two years, if I’m the larger one, or you’re the larger one, most likely, our investors will encourage us to merge or we will just merge because it gets to the point where people start realizing like “Whoa, as the market matures, maybe the market has any two solutions for what the service we’re providing.” So you’re going to fill out merges as well. So that’s kind of what my take is on the industry.
The other thing is, investors and startups are going to focus a lot more on being profitable, right? Because WeWork for all [inaudible 00:26:34] they’re also the poster child for spending money hoping at some point to get a return. And then they go from being valued at like 40 billion to 6 billion people lose a ton of money. So now people are going to start looking at as a company as a PropTech firm, you’re providing a service, you’re generating income, how and when do you become profitable? So those are the things that people are going to be looking at, overall I’m very optimistic. There’s a lot of activity happening in space. I think when it comes to Opportunity Zone it’s going to play a bigger role as well, especially because when you start thinking about being profitable, being an Opportunity Zone investing in the space kind of helps you with that aspect of the business.
Jimmy: It helps provide an incentive for your investors to deploy their capital, into your Opportunity Zone Fund that may be focused on PropTech. Absolutely. So a lot of good trends that you gave us to keep an eye out for the rest of the year here in 2020 and beyond going into the future in the PropTech industry. I want to talk a little bit about your conferences, Steve. Last year you hosted the AnySizeDeals Opportunity Zone Summit in Brooklyn at the Williamsburg Hotel, like we mentioned, toward the beginning of the show, the keynote speakers at that event, were New York Real Estate Developers Stephen Wyckoff and Anthony Scaramucci, and then you also had Treasury official Dan Kowalski speak later in that day as well. I thought it was a great conference, well attended a lot of great experts in the space there. Can you tell us about a little bit about what you have in store for your next Opportunity Zones Conference? It’s part of the AnySizeDeals Week the Festival of Real Estate Innovation that’s coming to the Venetian at the Las Vegas in September. Tell us a little bit more.
Steve: Absolutely, absolutely. So I’m super excited about this. Like I mentioned earlier, I do conferences that focus on specific topics. So over the past couple of years, I’ve been doing four conferences four to five a year on different topics throughout the years. So I have one was focused on “Artificial Intelligence and Robotics” one that’s focused on “Blockchain and Real Estate” and then is the summit which is an “Opportunity Zone.” And then I have another one which is just “Proptech” in general.
So this year, we’re going to Vegas for four days for AnySizeDeals Week, which we call the Festival Real Estate Innovation. And over the four days, we’re going to cover those four main topics, right? So from the 8th to the 11 each day is a different topics and Opportunity Zone one, which is ASDSummit is on the third day, and it gives us an opportunity to bring people from different areas within the real estate ecosystem to facilitate networking and deal-making, but also delve deep into the topic.
So like on our call today, we talked about Opportunity Zones and how if you own or run a company, you should really think about the potential of what that can be if you’re an investor, you have to explore this. You mentioned a blockchain firm, right that focused on Opportunity Zones. So where else can you go where you would meet people from these different areas of the real estate ecosystem, but at the same time, you’re still connected by their interest in transforming the real estate industry.
The only place you’re going to do that is that AnySizeDeals Week, because for the four days we have people from those different areas. So for us, it’s super exciting. You mentioned the great speakers we had last year. It’s the same concept we’re going to have this year. We have a ton of great speakers that we’re lining up. We’re going to make the announcement shortly and take the Venetian because it’s a great hotel. And for us, really going to Vegas signifies the growth of our company and our business. But also, it’s a great place to do business, have fun and really enjoy yourself. So we’re really excited about that. And honestly, it’s just a great opportunity for the industry to really celebrate all the innovation that’s happening. And we’ll have panel discussions, keynote, deep dives and obviously, kind of exhibitors and some great networking sessions, etc. So it’s just very exciting.
Jimmy: Perfect, that’s great, Steve, I’m looking forward to it. And for our listeners out there, just you know, Steve and I have arranged for listeners of the “Opportunity Zone Podcast” to get a discount off of tickets for the AnySizeDeals Week Conference coming to Las Vegas, the Venetian Hotel. September 8th through 11. If you use the discount code OpportunityDb, you could save $100 off tickets, just visit anysizedeals.com to learn more and register. And again, that discount code to save $100 for our “Opportunity Zones Podcast” listeners is OpportunityDb. Steve, thanks for joining us today. Before we go, can you tell our listeners where they can go to learn more about you and AnySizeDeals? I think I already hit that up. But I’ll let you say one last word if you want to before we go.
`Steve: Absolutely. Yes. And thank you so much for having me, Jimmy. Like you mentioned, they could go on anysizedeals.com to look up the info or AnySizeDeals Week. And there’s all the information about the conference. We also started writing some articles I actually wrote an article called, “The Opportunity Zone and PropTech” and it kind of covers some of what we discussed. And you can also read that on the site as well. So it was my pleasure talking to you today. Hopefully, your listeners will get some great value out of it. I certainly had a great time. And thank you so much.
Jimmy: Perfect. Yeah, pleasure speaking with you as well, Steve. And for our listeners out there, I’ll have Show Notes on this episode on the Opportunity Zones database website, you can head to opportunitydb.com/podcast. And there you will find links to all of the resources that Steve and I discussed on today’s show, I’ll be sure to link to that article that Steve wrote recently on PropTech and Opportunity Zones. And I’ll also link to anysizedealsweek.com and where you can use that discount code OpportunityDb to purchase tickets to the event coming to the Venetian later this year in September. Steve, thanks again for joining us. It’s been great.
Steve: Thank you so much, Jimmy.